talking about increasing taxes, letting the tax rate go up on people making over $250,000 a year. as i understand it, that's about $85 billion a year, funding the government for eight days. $85 billion is a lot of money, but if you look at government waste, even senator tom coburn has identified $20 billion in waste. has anybody thought about getting the revenue from waste, seeing just how much we really need? >> the problem has usually been if you rdise taxes, the spending cuts will come later, and they never seem to manifest. >> greta: but not even spending cuts. actually waste. >> well, yeah, waste and fraud and abuse are the famous three horsemen of cuts. but the fact is that many times they're harder to get to it would afternoon. i think tom coburn has done a great service by identifying a lot of duplication and waste in the government, including in the pentagon. i'm a defense hawk, but the pentagon needs to do a better job when it comes to handling the people's money too. you can't close that gap between spending and the debt by just raising taxes on the two upper income tax